(no subject)

[usernamenumber]

It occurs to me that I've never weighed in on this whole DC vs SD thing except in responses to Lizbeth's posts, so I'm going to try and put my thoughts into words here.

See, all other things being equal, we'd both almost certainly choose San Diego. It's nicer, more familiar and not in the middle of a swamp. My dad has suggested that now is the time to explore, be adventurous and try out new places. Several friends have echoed this sentiment. However, while I'd normally agree with that, might I point out that in the last year-and-a-half, we've lived in the following places:

Santa Cruz, CA
San Diego, CA
Raleigh, NC
Chapel Hill, NC
Palm Harbor, FL
...and various places in New Zealand.

Each of the above locations involved a stay of between 1 and 8 months. In short, we're quite fine putting a stop to the adventure and actually staying put for a while. For that, the choice between a place we know and like and a place we don't know and might not like is a no-brainer.

So the reason we would consider moving to DC, indeed the reason that DC is looking very tempting, is not that either of us think we'd prefer living there. It is of course _possible_ that we'd end up liking it more than SD, but it's still an unknown and we've had enough of unknowns for a while. The reason we are considering DC is because, quite simply, all other things are not equal.

1) We can't afford to move to SD.
The official word from RH is that if we were to move now, we would get zero funding for the move. If we waited for the numbers to come in for next quarter (middle of March), then our chances are upgraded to "maybe". Lizbeth's already posted a cost-breakdown of an immediate move, so I'll spare you the details. Simply put, the combined costs of breaking our lease and moving all our stuff is more than we've got in savings at the moment.

2) We could do DC now.
I totally sympathize with Lizbeth not wanting to hang around after her difficult parting at Rennaisance Academy. She needs to get a job and not give herself a chance to wallow, but not here. We could do SD if we waited until our lease was up in August (September?), thereby avoiding the early-termination fee and giving us time to save. But the difference between moving to SD in September and moving immediately to DC for a year, then moving to SD is only 4 months (in terms of when we'd actually get back to SD)!

3) Brownie Points and Money
It would be an easy excuse to just say that Red Hat was making me move or that they'd be terribly upset at me if I didn't, but that's just not true. Noone would hold it against me if I moved to SD instead of DC. However, they need someone in DC enough to offer a raise to whoever takes the job and it certainly wouldn't hurt my reputation. In short, it's a lame reason in ittself and I'd never respect myself if this was my main motivation, but as an extra perk it's certainly worth noting. The raise may or may not even matter as the increased cost-of-living will probably eat up a big portion of it-- then again, it's more of an offset than we'd have moving to California.

So, I guess it comes down to this: Unless we can engineer a way to make California immediately practical, there's pretty much no reason not to move to DC.

...at least, I wish it was that simple. *sigh*. I mean, neither of us have ever lived in an actual city before and this is sort of the ubercity, full of big things, old things, rich people and homeless people we'd pass on the way to work. It'd have all the highs and lows of civilization right there in our faces. Maybe this just sounds wishy-washy, but dammit, that's really overwhelming. You folks have to understand: All Lizbeth's talk about "becoming cool", our ability to relate to each other, the wonderful growth in our relationship, it's all because we learned to simplify things, take breaks when we need to, realize our limits, etc. I am scared to death that this would undo everything and just stress us both out.

The problem is that we just don't have enough data to make an educated descision. I've been there three times, but Lizbeth's never been anywhere near the place. Once we commit to moving it would be customary for the company to pay for an apartmenthunting trip, but at that point we can't flee screaming even if upon arrival that seems the wisest thing to do. We could afford to buy Lizbeth a ticket to come with me the next time I teach in DC, but then we've further squandered our savings if it turns out bad.

Oh, there's also the fact that if we move to DC there's really no way that Red Hat would be able to guarantee that if I moved to SD in a year's time there would be enough demand in the area for me to work there without travelling 100% again.

*ubersigh*

I've been doing a lot of sighing lately because the only conclusion I've reached is that there's no perfect solution to this problem. We're getting close to deciding on DC because it's the easiest, but I don't want easy. I want risk-free like I always want. Of course, I never get risk-free and so far I've been lucky but, boy, things could really, really suck if this time I lost.

Does anybody out there in LJ-land have suggestions for places to check out, tips to make the move less likely to freak us out if we did do it, etc? That would make both our lives a lot easier, I think.

*onemoresigh*

--Brad

Comments

[abazureonna.livejournal.com]

oh, Brad, moving is hard. i'm sorry you guys have so much stress.

for purely selfish reasons, let me stress how rad DC is. the one time i went to DC was under the worst conditions possible -- ie: to get an arranged marriage with some homophobic norwegian banker -- and yet i still loved the city. the museums were probably my favorite part. not only are there about a million of them, but they're all excellent and they're all free. second to that was the public transportation which kicks all of California's ass. the people were friendly and so used to people coming and going that no one got uptight about whether or not anyone was "really" from DC or not.

you know, you should talk to Robert (http://www.livejournal.com/users/ciole) about DC since he lived there for a good while and seemed to really like it.

oh, have i mentioned that DC is significantly closer to NYC than anywhere in California yet? not that, you know, i'd try and get you to live somewhere purely based on where i'm going to be living or anything.

[choose-again.livejournal.com]

you know, i had fogotten that moving is hard for everybody. i had been feeling that we were screwing up because this is hard. i mean, you'd think we'd be professionals by now, with all the moving we've done lately. but this is still really hard. thank you so much for the reality check. it's nice to have some perspective.

re: you being in NYC... is this anything like me thinking i could attend grad school in Hartford? would we ever actually see each other? i mean, you were in davis forever and we neglected you from santa cruz. from what i understand, NYC and DC are about 4 hours apart too. (i get my data from the independance day movie, huzzah.) i would love to have someone i know nearby, but is it nearby? :)

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[abazureonna.livejournal.com]

i'd have to look into that more. there are so many train and bus agencies on the east coast that amtrak is usually an expensive and bad idea. i think it's a little better now, but it used to take me about 6 and a half hours to get from Davis to Santa Cruz, and it cost about $70.

i don't know about DC, but it's *really* easy to get from NYC to Hartford via metro north.

[jodisays.livejournal.com]

"However, they need someone in DC enough to offer a raise to whoever takes the job and it certainly wouldn't hurt my reputation. In short, it's a lame reason in ittself and I'd never respect myself if this was my main motivation, but as an extra perk it's certainly worth noting."

it isn't lame, and respect away. the way you get to do what you want and do good isn't sat's when you are out of school. it is networking, it is being flexible, it is showing willingness and enthusiasm. there is nothing wrong with realizing that it would be looked upon kindly...that will help your next step better than 100 positive performance reviews.

"I mean, neither of us have ever lived in an actual city before and this is sort of the ubercity, full of big things, old things, rich people and homeless people we'd pass on the way to work."
Do you have an actual address of where you would be working? You'd be surprise about how green the greater DC area is...I actually miss it here, with so many trees, and so many rivers and creeks. I felt closer to nature there that in Santa Cruz except when I was on campus. Also, there are so many options of where to live, and Elizabeth could potentially work in that community.
I have family in Baltimore, and a cousin who works at the Pentagon but lives our in Chesapeake Shores. If you have any specific questions, let me know.

Risk free is knowing that you have a secure job you like where they like you(and show it), and having each other. You haven't always had that. And things have worked. You have to go into it giving it a real chance, though, or you'll sabotage it and be miserable.

Come on...think cherry blossoms! =)

[usernamenumber.livejournal.com]

Risk free is knowing that you have a secure job you like where they like you(and show it), and having each other. You haven't always had that. And things have worked. You have to go into it giving it a real chance, though, or you'll sabotage it and be miserable.

Well, amen to that.

As for specific questions, sure:

Given that what you said about feeling closer to nature than when you were in SC is the single most encouraging thing I've read about going to DC, give us some areas to look for housing in. There are two RH centers in the DC area and I assume I'd be welcome at either. One is in the middle od downtown, near the Metro Center (walking distance from the white house, etc). The other is in Tyson's Corner, VA, near Vienna.

Any info about what the least intimidating areas convenient to either place might be would be greatly appreciated.

[jodisays.livejournal.com]

see metro discussion above. being near the metro center means you can live on any line, even at the end, and not have a hard trip in.
tc, va is out past the outer beltway, and not on the metro i don't think. i'll check the map.

[usernamenumber.livejournal.com]

Lizbeth and I had already been looking at some interactive Metro maps and seeing what cost what to get to Metro Center. If you live far enough out, it can be as much as $7/day, which is too much, I think. But of the ones that are closer, we still don't know what kind of neighborhoods they're in and so whether or not to search rent.com for them. Lizbeth did some research and figured out that the south green line is "the bad part of town", but that's about it.

So can anyone reccomend some neighborhoods, with their ascociated metro stations? That way we can look at rental prices/options in the walk-to-the-station-able areas.

And yes, I'm all sold on that commute being really nice. Especially compared to driving in DC *shudder*.

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[doteatop.livejournal.com]

If you're commuting on the metro more than 4 or 5 stops, don't live in DC proper. Live in Maryland out around 50. It's cheaper to live there and the housing isn't as old. Avoid SE DC, consider SW only if you are buying property, avoid NW east of 10th street, and avoid NE more than like 20 blocks north of downtown. Don't even look in Takoma. Georgetown area is nice, though expensive, but there's no metro access.

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[abazureonna.livejournal.com]

Come on...think cherry blossoms! =)

can we just talk about that for a minute? you really haven't lived until you've seen the city/town/whatever you live in totally transformed by an explosion of cherry blossoms in the spring time. i hella fucking miss that about Japan.

the other more serious thing i wanted to point out is that you may not be returning to the California you remember. i thought it was just my own selective perception or something that made it seem like everyone here is talking about or actually leaving. but then i read that national chain moving van/truck companies are having a really hard time keeping moving vehicles in California, because so many are leaving the state and being dropped off elsewhere, but no moving vehicles are coming in to California. the economy in CA is totally abysmal enough that i'm not surprised that your company would have reservations about moving you to SD.

=]

[doteatop.livejournal.com]

I know I'm coming on as a cynic, but the cherry blossoms really don't last that long, and the rest of the year you just have terrible weather and humidity. ;)

Re: =]

[abazureonna.livejournal.com]

that's too bad. they're really something special in Japan.

Re: =]

[doteatop.livejournal.com]

I remember in DC they were very nice when I went to look at them... That brief period of time we mostly stayed inside. There were tens of thousands of tourists everywhere, it was amazing, even for DC, they clogged even the residential sidewalks of the city, where there were extra vending carts set up for them.

Want to go visit Colin in Japan with me?

Re: =]

[abazureonna.livejournal.com]

Want to go visit Colin in Japan with me?

if only i could. that would be unspeakably cool.

Re: =]

[doteatop.livejournal.com]

=]

[choose-again.livejournal.com]

i'm comfoosed. have you lived there? i know baltimore's nearby, but... like i said i have no idea what it's like to live in a city. or on the east coast, which is one of the more appealing ideas about moving there. i will have lived in every area of the us except the midwest, and that's really ok. no ocean in DC! :(

brad doesn't want a commute and i don't want an apartment that was built over 10 years ago.
no. yellow. kitchens.

but green is essential. that would be really nice.

[jodisays.livejournal.com]

my family is all from baltimore, so i've done the baltimore-dc thing for ever, extended stays, etc. i've also taken many a kid-trip there. =)
dude--commute in the great dc area means taking a very clean and well planned metro, built less that 30 years ago. it rocks! and it you don't have to be far away to feel not in the city.

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[doteatop.livejournal.com]

I do like the metro's omnipresence, but commuting on it sucks! it's terribly overcrowded during commute hours, and has only been getting worse. When the car is packed like sardines and gets stuck on the tracks, you can be packed in there for an extra half hour easy.

[fiatlouis.livejournal.com]

I have no specific advice about the DC area, or the east coast at all, since I have never lived east of the Cascades/Sierras, or even visited anything farther east than Michigan. So I understand all of your feelings about CA. But, moving is hard enough, and as has already been mentioned, "risk-free" in this context can definitely include getting a raise and getting in good with the bosses. Moving someplace where your job future is not so clear can be difficult. I'm still looking for a job in Seattle, and have been rejected by two companies so far. Remember that DC is not forever, and that suburban DC is not nearly as cityish, at least from what I've heard (seems confirmed by previous comments). I bet that you can find a place that works for you, and allows you to have the things you need that is also within commuting distance of an RH center.
Good luck with everything.

SD vs DC, round ten

[doteatop.livejournal.com]

Hi there, this is in response both to your email and your lj post (Of course I remember ya).

I know DC inside and out. I've lived in several different neighborhoods in the city, worked downtown, and traveled and stayed and partied and slept in many of the surrounding areas. I've been to almost every nightclub, every metro stop, and I've gone wandering around the embassy buildings at night enough to still dream about them.

DC is hugely alien, and not at all like any city on the west coast. Despite the lack of true skyscrapers, due to the legal height limit for buildings, DC, especially downtown, is oppressively urban.

Culturally, DC is unlike the west coast. There's no good mexican food. The racial and class polarity is extreme. The homeless are ever-present and in terrible shape. There's a lot of commentary about this in my LJ, especially from back when I lived there. In winter time, walking from the metro to my office, I did see people who had frozen to death the night before.

The surrounding communities are pretty different from the city itself. Towns on the Maryland side are often quiet suburbs; large apartment complexes, grocery stores, and office buildings, that's about it. Deeper into Maryland you get pretty farmland, ranches, fields, all very nice but more than an hour from DC by car. Baltimore is about an hour and a half away (55 miles) and can be fun, though it has a darker side.

The nearby parts of Virginia are much the same, being practically parts of DC, just more expensive commuter housing. All of these areas are meant to be only accessible by car or bus. There's no pedestrian culture. Diplomats really can hit you with their cars with impunity. A typical resident drives to the metro stop, and takes the metro to the city, a commute of about an hour.

If you're willing to live in MD, you can beat 1500 for a 2 bedroom. I think I know of a spot with 1200/mo, actually, a large complex in Greenway or Greenbelt, whatever it's called.

The only culture to be found in the area is downtown or thereabouts, and that's mostly bars and restaurants. The surrounding areas are really only commuter housing. I used to drive up to Baltimore every weekend for that reason.

The metro really doesn't make commutes that pleasanter, though it is really convenient in comparison to busses for getting to clubs, restaurants, etc. Tyson's Corner as an alternative to residence in DC proper really doesn't seem like that much of an improvement, as, in my opinion, if you want to go anywhere at night, or to a museum, bar, ethnic restaurant, club, etc, you'll probably still end up going into DC.

I found DC to be a terrible strain to live in. It's a dirty, violent city with a lot of rich people. There's no release and very little in the way of natural settings. People compare it to New York but NYC has central park, and a lot more in the way of culture. I used to walk by the capital building, the smithsonian, th white house, the washington monument, the little statue of einstein, and everything, on a daily basis when I'd walk a few miles as an alternative to taking the metro home. I'd actually walk through the underground part of the smithsonian as a shortcut, as it has no stoplights. Anyway, living near these things, you get used to them, maybe there's some appeal in that. DC has a lot for tourists, a lot for wealthy people, but very little for residents. I would never leave the west coast for DC, much less choose it over SD. When I moved there I didn't know what I was getting into. I could go back to DC and get a job almost instantly, but I've found struggling in CA, although stressful, to be a lot happier.

I don't know if this is exactly what you were looking for, but I'm open to questions ;)

Re: SD vs DC, round ten

[choose-again.livejournal.com]

thank you so much for your advice- you post actually has confirmed most of the things that i had picked on about city life and east coast city life in particular but no one had actually told me for certian about yet. i would not deal well with several of the things that you mention, and it sounds like we have similar enough tastes that your advice is particulary helpful to me.

there are obviously a lot of people who do think that i can/should be able to deal with these aspects of city life, but really, i would much rahter live in san diego, i think. it really all depends on brad's job now.